: Palan Bilampi gravity water system and sanitation

Applicant Agua Para la Vida (APLV) Plan ID: 385
Status: approved_not_funded Review Cycle end date: 2011-09-21

Discussion Forum

Unit cost of individual toilet

By Watershed Organization Trust Posted on Wed 20 Jul 2011, over 14 years ago

We appreciate your efforts and good work done in providing access to safe drinking water and sanitation to the vulnerable communities in the project area.

Though the budget summary is in English, the detailed budget is in Spanish and is difficult to understand. Would it be possible to send the same in English?

From the photos of the toilet, it looks like that they are constructed on the ground at about 2-3 ft height. Generally, in our area we excavate the underground pits for the decomposting of human waste. Very often, we find it difficult for the excavation due to hard rock in the underground. If the model shown is on the surface ground, we could try it out in our area too. Pl inform

Thanks
thomas

Follow up

By Pure Water for the World Posted on Mon 18 Jul 2011, over 14 years ago

Hello,

After the completed project is handed over to the community, will any follow up take place afterwards?

Thanks,
Jamin Peck
Pure Water for the World

Follow up

By Agua Para la Vida (APLV) Posted on Mon 18 Jul 2011, over 14 years ago

Jamin PecK:

The completed project is first tested so that its real performance is compared to its design features and the relevant information is handed to the manitenance committee. There follows a period of about six months during which the operating system remains under observation and control of APLV. Then the system is formally handed to the community. One of our technicians' full time job is to periodically review the operation of the projects and to deal with not only possible failures too difficult for the maintenance committtee to deal with ( such as landslides or hurricane dammage) but also with the modifications required by population increase. A yearly budget is ascribed to this activity.
Gilles Corcos

Water System Review

By Agua Para La Salud (APLS) Posted on Mon 18 Jul 2011, over 14 years ago

Chitra--If I am to review your proposal properly I will need the materials to check the designs to ensure they are within normal standards. Thanks...Lynn

Water System Review materials to check the design

By Gram Vikas Posted on Tue 19 Jul 2011, over 14 years ago

Hi Lynn,
thanks for the mail , alongwith the proposal we have attached the budget sheet for individual villages which also have the cost estimates in indian rupees. Will it help to give an idea about the design and cost?

thanks
chitra

Water System Review materials to check the design

By Blue Planet Network Posted on Mon 25 Jul 2011, over 14 years ago

This discussion should be carried out on the application of Gram Vikas, not here.
Thanks,
Rajesh

Population

By Blue Planet Network Posted on Mon 25 Jul 2011, over 14 years ago

What is the current population?

What growth factor have you put in for 15 years?
What is the main source of growth - migration or reproduction?
The former would involve new homes and new tap stands, correct?

Have you noticed if population is continuing to grow exponentially or some stability is being generated? This may be just general observations across all your projects.

Is population growth a concern? I realize that religious/cultural factors may be at play.

Population

By Agua Para la Vida (APLV) Posted on Thu 28 Jul 2011, over 14 years ago

The present population is 169 persons. The estimated growth rate is 4% per year and the project has been sized for a period of 20 years , which means a population of 370 persons.
The growth factor we use is of course subject to inaccuracies , even major ones. Sometimes a very bad crop will cause this (still a bit nomadic) population to sell their land and migrate Eas where the land is cheaper. Then the population even decreases. Sometimes the fact that there is available potable water in sufficient quantity is a sufficient incentive for the surrounding population to join the village so that the growth rate is way above what an ordinary village would experience.
Our way of proceeding depends on our experience with villages where the villagers have had a water system with our help for a number of years and where the census has been renewed. W For a new project we triy to match the various charcteristics of an old and the new village which are the closest ( proximity to a road, price of land, available outside work etc...) and then apply the growth rate obseved of the previous village. Local birth rate is a more stable parameter, reasonably close to the national birth rate for Nicaragua .

New homes do involve new tapsstands but the installation of even a single new tap stand requires monitoring and design by our technical group and this is a community responsibility, not an individual one. Additionally certain zones are defined initially as acceptable for extension of the distribution system and the maintenance committee sees to it that a new arrival either puts up his hut within that zone or formally gives up a right to a tap.
As I think I mentioned earlier the population that is or going to be serviced by the system initially constructed (with the proposed budget) is the population projected for 15 years hence-( this includes all the mains) the additional taps being paid for by the new arrivals.
The population growth is a concern of course. One of our techniciens is employed full time dealing with extensions due to the growth as well as with system dammage or failure beyond he ability of the village to deal with ( earthqakes, hurricanes, massive earthslides) . Part of our annual budget is devoted to these activities.

Re: Population

By Blue Planet Network Posted on Thu 28 Jul 2011, over 14 years ago

Thanks for the clarification.

I think putting the population that is going to be served at the time of completion is much better with the additional explanation of excess capacity to handle growth. Any other number is an estimation and distorts the snapshots that we generate with project impact.

Those numbers reflect who are being served and should reflect actuals not 15 year predictions (which as you say can vary up or down). And natural events can affect the system. Also, the number used may get the system for only 5 years if your system lifetime is accurate.

Another member, Meera, has asked us to track the number as they vary rather than have only one number which she keeps updating as the well adoption goes up (or down).

We plan to work on that feature, so we can have a good picture of actual use of the system over time.

Thanks,
Rajesh

Re: Population

By Agua Para La Salud (APLS) Posted on Thu 28 Jul 2011, over 14 years ago

Population is a complicated factor when calculating water system or any other project. The Guatemalan government lists rural areas at 3% growth and urban areas at 5%. The latter is higher because of migration to urban areas for work. This does not indicate actual birth rate but a figure that blends migration and birthrate. The reality is somewhere around 4% actual ( more than double in 20 years) and we have seen this rate actually played out in the rural area villages and schools where we have been building water systems and sanitary facilities for the last 20 years. It is prudent at least in Central America to anticipate this growth in our designs. An indicator of this is the number of villages that were served with ater systems 15 to 20 years ago are coming to us to assist in amplifying their water systems.

Re: Population

By Agua Para la Vida (APLV) Posted on Thu 28 Jul 2011, over 14 years ago

Rajesh:

It is not an estimation it is the actual number of folks who can get the alloted amount of clean water for the budget presented. Whether this population is reached in 5, 15 or 25 years is, it seems to me less relevant than the number of people served for the money. This goes along by the way with your own previous remarks a couple of years ago about that being the crucial factor.
Sincerly,
Gilles

Water System Elements

By Agua Para La Salud (APLS) Posted on Sat 16 Jul 2011, over 14 years ago

Would you post pictures of a typical spring capture, distribution tank, household tap stand, and latrine. Gracias

Water System Elements

By Agua Para la Vida (APLV) Posted on Sat 16 Jul 2011, over 14 years ago

Lynn:

No problem. Naturally these pictures belong to projects already constructed,
Some spring capture constructions are quite different from others as you know. The water stands are pretty much all the same by now although their drainage depends strongly on the geography of the surounding land. And of course the size of the tanks depends on the size of the population and varies from 4 cubic meters to 60 or more cubic meters.. I am asking the folks in Rio Blanco to send you pictures ofrom past projects most similar to Palan Bilampi
They should reach you very soon.

Gilles

Water System Elements

By Gram Vikas Posted on Mon 18 Jul 2011, over 14 years ago

Hi Gilles and Lynn,

I shall send you pictures / sketches of how the gravity system works and hope it will help to understand. If you have any doubt still, would be happy to reply.

chitra

Water System Elements

By Agua Para la Vida (APLV) Posted on Mon 18 Jul 2011, over 14 years ago

Thank you Chitra for your kind proposal to send us ( Gilles Corcos and Lynn Roberts) pictures and sketches to help us understand how gravity systems, work. I won't speak for Lynn though I am aware of his solid and long experience in this domain. But Agua Para la Vida has been designing, building and supervising the maintenance of gravity systems in Nicaragua since 1987 and has been responsible for the construction of 72 such systems operating presently through a large part of Central Nicaragua.. It has made available a very large number of technical notes on the subject and designed special computer programs to facilitate and perfect their design. It also operates a technical school for local Nicaraguayen teaching the various technical aspects of this subjects.
However we are always interested in learning how other groups deal with this subject , so by all means send us pictures and sketches of your projects.
Thank you.
Gilles Corcos

gravity flow documents

By Gram Vikas Posted on Tue 19 Jul 2011, over 14 years ago

Hi Gilles,

Have attached the documents on gravity flow in the application page under Other Documents" hope you can locate them and in case you have any query will be happy to respond
chitra

Water System Elements

By Agua Para La Salud (APLS) Posted on Sat 23 Jul 2011, over 14 years ago

Gilles I noticed in the conduction line from your break pressure box to the distribution tank that you have about a 5% grade. Have you had any air accumulation problems with these slopes and velocities? Is the land undulating or relatively level down hill slope?

Water System Elements

By Agua Para la Vida (APLV) Posted on Wed 27 Jul 2011, over 14 years ago

Lynn;
:I don't have in hand what I usually do, the detailed data of the profile of the conduction line for Palan Bilampi. You should be able to get it directly from Jaime Alonzo by asking for el aire program para P.B. He can send you the complete design including a very detailed graph of the conduction profile. I am pretty sure you'll see several local high and low points on it.
We do design conduction lines with slopes that are sometimes way steeper than those recommended by the official Nicaragua INAA and also wayshallower and we have been doing that for more than 20 years. And we are presently actively engaged in what looks like a succesesful process to get them to change their norms. The air pockets never get us problems, ( see the downloaded manual and program from our website). Large velocities do require immobilizing codos and can be a long term problem if there are excessive sediments, (we try to do a good filtration before and at the casa de accopio). Low velocities can be a problem with sediments of course but they can be fought with good filtration at the start, low -points cleaning valves and smaller diameters at a few crucial points. We have had conduction lines with a mean slope of less than 1/500 and large level excursions that have been operating for more than 12 years without any plugging problems. In fact I can't remember our ever having had a plugging problem in a conduction line. Sediment problems are of course very minor in distribution systems downstream of a tank where sediments have time to deposit and also are very visible,.

Water System Elements

By Agua Para La Salud (APLS) Posted on Wed 27 Jul 2011, over 14 years ago

Thanks Gilles. I think your experiences with air and blockage are similar to ours with very few if any problems. The only problems we have had are when the pipe size on slow systems is too large which allow for accumulation of air. Yoy system design appears to deal with this factor.

Water System Elements

By Agua Para la Vida (APLV) Posted on Mon 18 Jul 2011, over 14 years ago

Dear Lynn,

we added in the application 12 pictures to show examples of tank, spring capture, latrine and water tap. They come from past projects of Agua Para La Vida.
Their title begin by "Example of..." in order to differentiate with pictures from Palan Bilampi community.

Best regards,

Denis Barea.

Water System Elements

By Agua Para La Salud (APLS) Posted on Mon 18 Jul 2011, over 14 years ago

Thanks for the pictures. The 2kb size makes them hard to make out details. Do you have nay of the 250-300kb size?

Water System Elements

By Agua Para la Vida (APLV) Posted on Fri 22 Jul 2011, over 14 years ago

Hi Lynn,

I don't understand because the picture we put are in 200-300 kb size. Normally you can download them.
Can you confirm that you can't download the pictures ?

Best Regards

Denis.

Water System Elements

By Agua Para La Salud (APLS) Posted on Sat 23 Jul 2011, over 14 years ago

I just figured out that if you try to download the fotoes using the PW Download Button they come through 2-15kb, but if you open the foito in a new window and copy they come through normal size. Thanks for your patience.

The overall project looks very good and similar to your other sustainable projects I have seen APLV complete. A secure water system has been one of the most significant objectives of villages from our experience and normally motivates the village to continue with their efforts once they need not carry water and expend much energy doing so.

Re: Water System Elements

By Blue Planet Network Posted on Mon 25 Jul 2011, over 14 years ago

Just to clarify - PWX has a sophisticated photo management system.

We store 3 qualities of the photo: thumbnail, low-res, and original. If you click on the thumbnail, you get the low-res. Clicking on the low-res gives the original.

Clearly, we need to put some helpful text to clarify.

You can also always link to your old applications and pictures by inserting an html tag like this link to the El Carmen project.

Happy to work with APLV to import all their projects since 1987 onto PWX.

Regards,
Rajesh

Re: Water System Elements

By Peer Water Exchange Posted on Thu 28 Jul 2011, over 14 years ago

Dear All,

I have just added a helpful hint on top of images that to see it in full size (not compacted to fit the PWX column) you need to click on the image again.

Sorry about the incovenience and thanks for the idea.

Regards,
Rajesh


Application Summary

Applicant :   Agua Para la Vida (APLV)
Status : approved_not_funded
Country : NICARAGUA Map
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